An App by Any Other Name…. | Print |  E-mail
Tuesday, 21 February 2012

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OK, good friends and fellow guided imagery aficionados, we’ve got a lively debate going over here amongst our staff and various consultants, and maybe you could help us settle this. I’m serious. Would those of you who are familiar with using and purchasing apps be our focus group for a second here?

I’ll start from the beginning.  Our very gung-ho and generous techie dude, Jon Lorenzo, (who has better things to do, because he runs this hardcore computer system solutions company called Incom) decided that we should have apps of our guided imagery.  

So he made one for us, on his own time, of our Sleep imagery, which he named Sleep Help.  Then he got it into the iTunes app store.  It’s basically the same thing as our Healthful Sleep imagery, only it also comes with tips on sleep hygiene and extra content along those lines. 

Because it was similar to our Sleep imagery, we didn’t give it much thought - just priced it at the same level as a download - $11.99.

Then we started hearing from people, saying that this was way too pricey for an app… that a lot of apps were free or at bargain basement prices at just a few dollars.  Some said they’d never buy an app priced over, say $6.99 or $9.99.  

Then there was another group saying if it’s mostly the same as a download, you can’t price it lower than the download, because then you’ll just be cutting into your own sales of downloads with these lower priced apps.

In addition, there was a chorus of people who said that this wasn’t the case at all, because App People are not necessarily Download People, and some prefer to buy both anyway, just as there are CD People and Download People, and they’re pretty independent of each other too.  

Still others told us, “Most of the stuff that’s free or priced really low isn’t very good, and your stuff is really high quality, so why would you price it as low as those other guys?”

Others said we should make the app more “appy”, by building in some extra interactivity to it, and then we could price it at the higher price we originally had.

And finally, some told us to put up a 3-minute free version, so people could check out the quality first, and then price the complete 30-minute audio at a higher price.
So we're just shooting in the dark here.   (Most people my age are pretty clueless about apps… but we’re getting a lot of contradictory advice from the Cluefull, too.) So what do you app users suggest?  We want to be fair and competitive and reasonable, but we don’t want to sell ourselves down the river. What should we do? Please advise.  And thank you, as always!

All best,

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Comments (43)Add Comment
written by Moni, February 22, 2012
I am a woman 60 who is also new to the app world and although I LOVE all your CDs and would be more than willing to purchase one or all of your apps, I never pay more than 3.99 for my apps because I'm on a limited budget. Also, I wouldn't purchase an app that is basically the same as the CDs I already have. I like the idea of a free app that gives you a preview and then lets you purchase the full app at a reasonable (under $4) price, as long as it's new material and not a repeat of what we already have. Wonder if you have ever thought of putting beautiful pictures with your guided imagery CDs? I recently was at the dentist staring at a blank screen while I was having painful dental work done and thought wouldn't it be nice if Belleruth had a VISUAL guided imagery with that lovely music and your soothing voice. It would be great to have that extra sensory to go along with the others. I had received something similar from a friend via email and found it so relaxing and soothing. If interested, you could view a sample of what I was thinking about at:
Just a thought. Keep up the great work and I look forward to seeing your apps soon.
written by Andrea, February 22, 2012
I am very excited to hear about the apps! I already have several of your downloads but I can also see myself buying the apps. I would probabably not buy an app that cost more than $5 especially if I already have the download version. I think offering a sample version as a free app with the option to upgrade to the full version at a higher price makes the most sense to me. That seems to be the norm in app world.

Good luck!

P.S. I hope there will be Android apps as well.
written by Max Highstein, February 22, 2012
Hi there, Belleruth. I'm in the same position, and it's a squeeze. Yes, the quality of similar types of Aps is low. Yes the price expectation is low. No, you don't want to give away your valuable product for next to nothing. My suggestion, and what I'll eventually do at, is to offer an ap that is a "lite" version of the full quality product, for that expected low price point. Keep the quality up, but make the quantity small, and thus introduce new potential customers to your line. I hope that helps.
written by Kathryn Shimmura, February 22, 2012
I am one of the oldies who is clueless about apps and don't own a smartphone. However, the last suggestion beginning with "And finally," seems to make the most sense.
written by Deb Del Vecchio-Scully,LPC, February 22, 2012
It seems to me that apps serve a different purpose than downloads, particularly for those with smart phones and tablets. Apps are quicker and easier to access and appeal to adolescents and young adults. When I have asked clients to download a guided imagery product, I am often asked 'is it on iTunes?'

It seems many apps contain free content and paid content. I too, was surprised to see the sleep app priced at the download price - there isn't a compelling reason to use the app version unless it is a personal
Preference. Perhaps, it is about packaging or grouping a few imageries together as an app.
Many clients have combined about the difficulty of getting their downloads into iTunes and I believe apps would be easier.
written by cohen, February 22, 2012
use all- cd's, downloads & apps-- like the idea of a free version and when you do charge I think the 11.99 is too pricey. look for volume with apps so most price points are lower
ggod luck
written by Diedre Seeley, February 22, 2012
I like the idea of the lower priced intro app, then follow up with the full-priced update. A lot of apps are like that. But do know that anything "e" is usually less expensive than the "hard" edition, whether it be a book, CD, etc.
Best of luck, and let me know what you decide. Have lots of clients. Just recommended all of your cancer MP3s to a friend.
written by Karen, February 22, 2012
I like the last idea. 3 minute free version with higher priced full version. Many apps follow this model of a limited feature free version and higher priced full version. I don't know what the typical pricing is for the full versions though. You might want to research that. But I don't see how you could justify pricing the full app lower than your Download version. Some research is warranted.
written by Susan, February 22, 2012
Why have the app? If it's basically one more way for folks to access very similar content to the CDs/downloads than it should be similarly priced because it's just an easier way to get the content of the download. Actually maybe it's more valuable since I don't have to sync it onto my phone if I download it. On the other hand, if it offers something more, less or different - love the idea of including some sort of interactivity - i.e. ability to adjust lenghth or something - than the CD/downloads than you probably have a good argument for charging the same price as downloads if not a bit more. Bottomline the current app as described really just sounds like a duplicate of the download not an "app".
written by Claire Utrecht , February 22, 2012
I am relatively new to apps but here is what I think: a free sample would be a good idea to get people interested and then they could order the app if they liked it. I think you should keep the same price for your app as your download. Reading reviews can also be a help so if you had a short free app people could get a taste and hopefully write positive reviews.
written by Patrice, February 22, 2012
I love the idea of having a free shorter version and then charge more for the shorter version. The free apps usually have alot of ads and that's how they justify it being free. If you want to get rid of the pesky ads then you'll sign up for the free version. You could also have other features within the free app that cost money. Being a smart phone user I prefer apps to downloads and would love to be able to share your guided imagery in the form of an app with my clients! I also think $11.99 is too pricey for the full version and would never pay more than $4 or $5 for an app.
written by Mike Miller, PhD, February 22, 2012
Three minute sample is an excellent idea. Probably pricing as download is about right. Last comment legitimately asks if an app version is worth the trouble?
written by Jennifer, February 22, 2012
What about having the audio download come with an included "free" app? You could have a free 3 min. trial on at the app store that links to the download/ app package.

A high price will cause most people to ignore you at the app store, but pricing your wonderful sleep imagery at app store price isn't right because it isn't an app. Also, as I paid the download price I would feel somewhat cheated to see the same product for 4.99. (It is worth every penny at 11.99; I LOVE it)

App consumers usually want it quick and free or cheap and tend to consume rapidly and move on. So maybe have a mini-app with samples and tips and then a link to the download for the people that want more.
written by Jill Lamar, February 22, 2012
I am not the most savvy tech user, but I keep trying. I have an iPod, and an iPhone. I have downloaded most of your C.D.'s so they are in my music files on iTunes. If they are on iTunes, they can be on my audio device. If this is the case, I would only imagine it is true for others. I also use apps. If I were to buy a healthjourneys app, I would expect different content. It seems like a different market, and mindset. I would recommend apps that were like your free weekly spa treatments. In the app I would say for full content go to the web site and buy one. They are great!
written by Dylia, February 22, 2012
Hi Belleruth, check out Meditation Oasis. They sell CDs and downloads and also have FREE Podcasts and also reasonably priced apps ($4.99) which are subsets (in a way) of some of their most popular CDs. It might be a good pricing model and marketing strategy for you to adopt at this juncture of techno world!
written by Shannon, February 22, 2012
I also like the idea of a free app and then buy the larger version for a price, but think anything over $5 is too much. I have never paid more than $4 for an app.
written by sara, February 22, 2012
Maybe offer a basic app for a basic price, and then charge for additional content. Make it so that if we get the same quality/quantity as the download, that we eventually pay download price. Don't undercut yourselves. You have a quality product that is worth every penny.

With a lot of these "free" apps, you end up making in-app purchases that drive the price up. You could follow a similar strategy.
written by Liz Buchy, February 22, 2012
I have been reading everyone's comments... here is mine.
I have teenagers and I recently bought them your cd's for sports and teen stress. They were not too keen on the cd's. Although when I had explained what the cd's did for professional players they were interested. So this debate you are having actually is what I experienced with my teens. If you had an app with the same content as the cd's only a bit more 'hip'design, my teens would have devoured it, but as a cd they were not that interested. Also teens thru 20 something will pay full price when they know the content is good. If you are looking to broaden your consumer reach, go with the full version and full price. You can also go with something new for your existing clients at a less expensive price tag.
written by Aren, February 22, 2012
I love your products and I am also an App user - from my perspective, it is highly unlikely that I would buy an App priced over $6.99. I like the idea of differentiating between the app and the download so that the app doesn't quite have as much, and thus, you can justify a lower price point. Also, many apps have a free version and a "priced" version. Perhaps you could explore that alternative by having a free, effective, yet not as complete as the "priced" app. It may wet someone's appetite and then they might purchase the app and maybe even the download.
written by Susan G, February 22, 2012
The app needs to be $2.99 or less for people to even consider buying it. Perhaps the better debate is posing the question ," What are you expecting in return?"

written by Abbegail, February 22, 2012
I agree with Moni, I bought the app, was disappointed that it is basically the same as the sleep cd. I recommend the cd for soldiers in my sleep classes and so bought the app to test out as well. I will recommend either/or, but not both. Love the idea of a trial before buying the higher cost version of the app. Keep up the great work!
written by Craig, February 22, 2012
First, I love your work. Always have. I've bought CDs and Mp3s (some of the same titles when I found that I couldn't find my CD that I loaned out). That being said, IMHO an app should be different than the imagery. It should be... well an app that the user can interact with. Perhaps, you should look first at an app that is a tool to find the right guided imagery for the way the user feels through a series of questions or some other input (Heart Rate Variability or something else). After the questions are answered, the app provides suggested resources that the user can download for a fee. In that way, the app could be free or low cost and the imagery remains the same or discounted price. Just a thought. Make a dorid version and I'm in. :-)
written by Gwen Pincomb MD, Ph.D., February 22, 2012
I love that you are asking this question in the first place. Regardless what you ultimately do.

I have purchased many of your audios via CD from your site directly or via ITunes. Previously played all of them on iPod via itunes synch. The pricing seemed appropriate to me as there was a discount for direct download from your site as opposed to handling and CD shipping. The price per download still seems appropriate, though some sort of discount for purchasing several is always sweetly received. I suggest using the app a different way.

Now I have moved on to ipad and iphone 4S with many app purchases. I agree that the market expects apps in the range primarily of free to $1.99. However, what I see a need for that your app could fill is a really thoughtfully designed audio player better intended for guided imagery, meditation and sleep than the current existing ones. It could have some added features into which we could "plug" our existing purchases or use it to make new ones -- or play free samples, streaming from your audio cafe, etc. (see next post)

written by Gwen Pincomb MD, Ph.D., February 22, 2012
Issues with current audio apps, and I have used several, all have to do with varying ease/difficulty of entering content files into the apps; whether doing so requires a computer or direct download, having a sleep timer on it so that it doesn't keep playing past however long I wanted to listen or worse yet wakes me back up on a more rousing section; having some ability to bookmark or move readily between logically identified subsections of a recording; etc. Several players have some of these features. But for example, itunes does not let you set a sleep timer so it just keeps on going for the whole playlist. One can make a separate play list for each section of your recordings, but doing so is a bit self-defeating for organization and requires lots of repeated synching.

If you designed an app just for your recordings then it would be great to be able to select whether one wants to play through the entire recording, just the guided imagery section, just affirmations, etc or some smaller portion thereof via a sleep timer. Really deluxe would be ability to play from bookmark "A" TO bookmark "C" for example, and repeat "X" number of times. For me would also be a potentially useful interactive feature to have a text portion of the app that showed the affirmations in written form to assist in my attempting to memorize or highlight one or two to carry forward into my day. Thus, I would enjoy seeing a button to click which brought up the list of affirmations, and allowed me to click on one or more of them. Then this action would create a personalized mini-slide show which had an attractive brackground of some kind featuring just that quote (or quotes if I selected multiple affirmations). If multiple quotes, a separate screen shot for each. A kind and useful addition would be room for a few custom affirmations designed by the customer who might want to add in an individualized or rephrased affirmation that came to them while listening.

I think an app like this would add to the useability of all your downloads. It would have its own niche and not compete with your existing audios. This model is typical for the market and thus should not surprise users by a startlingly expensive app. The app focuses primarily on programming features rather than the content which can be delivered as in-app purchases (as one mechanism, still need to be able to add prior purchases) Since this type of app would expand the market for your downloads you might see your way clear to offer the app for free or priced very nominally. Some similar apps (audible) have a feature for them to send messages/news through it as well from the company. Itunes does a good job of managing app updates, so you can increase in features as you desire.

Finally, with the current move toward storage/cloud storage rather than carrying a large capacity on one's own listening device -- having the ability to let us input our existing files from major cloud services, icloud, imatch, dropbox, amazon, etc would be helpful. And like with itunes and the app store (similar for android) having an ongoing access to downloading again is needed because one might need to take them off at various times when working on a different one and then return again later. Having ability to download content directly without having to synch through a computer will win you friends of the future who may increasingly start to retire or not replace their desktops.

If your programming guru was especially so motivated, allowing the input of other legitimate audio files into your app purchased via other standardized sources could give your app and you an even wider audience. For example, I am a devoted listener to audio recordings by Clarissa Pinkola Estes distributed via Sounds True. These also would benefit much from a more fully featured audio player and intelligent use of individualized bookmarking.

Best wishes. Thanks for trying new ways to make your GIs fit with ease and purpose into our constantly changing lives and technologies.
written by Carol, February 22, 2012
I have an Android phone and love apps. I usually use the "free" or low price versions. I like the idea of a 3-5 minute free intro and then maybe two different levels of cost and length. Something less that $5 that might for instance have the imagery for surgery and another at $5 or $6 that could have the surgery affirmations.
written by Freya, February 22, 2012
Hi, what a dilemma! Yes I agree with all those who recommend a free intro, then a slightly more expensive full version. But don't sell yourself short- keep the best for downloads /CDs! A simple way to help this would be to have a link to your website within the App- don't get into the pop up adds(v. annoying)- then those really interested will follow it. Good luck, love the visualizations, thanks.
written by Diana, February 22, 2012
I'd buy either for $4, but would prefer an app.
written by Heather Ann, February 22, 2012
I would agree that a lite version would be a good thing to put on the app for a lower price. Since it is imagery, and not interactive like many other apps, why not put it on iTunes for the same rate as the other downloads and CDs from Health Journeys? People could buy/cloud/download it from the iTunes store quite simply, if that is their vehicle.
written by Weareone, February 22, 2012
Your work is high caliber work. Charging the same as for the CDs makes sense to me because they are so worth it! The 3mn sample may be worth doing,if you see that price is an issue, as it attests of the quality and will help sell it at a price that is worth your time. Thanks for your remarkable work, Belleruth.
written by Gretchen, February 22, 2012
I typically don't pay more than $5-$6 for apps. What I'm looking for are customizable features- choice of background music, voice volume vs music volume, change of length of the guided imagery (short, moderate and extended versions). If there were an app for the fertility one, there could be different options regarding inclusion of statements pertaining to adoption. I always try free versions first and often buy the full version within hours. Also, if I were buying a cd at a higher cost, I would likely buy just 1 or 2. For a good series of apps, I will buy 5 or more. I have several Andrew Johnson apps, which meet my expectations of how guided imagery can translate into an app format.
written by Lynden Costin, February 23, 2012
Apps are a convenient way to access guided meditations on a phone and as others have commented, can provide added features such as timers, fade outs or wske up options at the end, a choice of different background music options or voice only, visuals, customised playlist etc.

I think you should create a single light app (free dowload) that is upgradeable to a high quality app with the above features. The light app contains one or two freeby sample tracks (like you do on your website) and within the app they can then shop for other tracks as well as upgrade to the full featured app. Sell your work per track rather than per whole CD/theme, giving people the option to focus on what works for them eg. Guided imagery OR affirmations OR breath work etc. and thereby your pricing will be more appropriate to the market.

Android soon please!
written by Suzanne, LCSW in Mid MO, February 23, 2012
What wonderful comments by your listeners. I have a great collection of your works including early tapes (a studio copy do healthy pregnancy and labor) CDs and downloads. My collections is all a part of my iTunes library. Our kid collection is on my daughter Emma Belleruth's nano, her fav is David Illig's Peak Performance.

I'm somewhat new to apps with a droid and iPad. I'm drawn to the free apps and find myself disappointed when I have to pay to upgrade. On the other hand if it's something I want, I'll pay. I recently purchased the new DBT app and find myself doing more diary cards than before. More mindful of using the skills... I think apps for clinicians is an area to consider with additional content. journaling component, ability to track ones use or progress, sideshow of written affirmations to music or just great visuals with voice over, turn on or off music track. Lots of possibilities. I can see use of these with my iPad in sessions with clients.

When you download a magazine app, then you need to subscribe to get the mags, either individually or as bundles for a better price. They're still a bit pricey for some. This might be an option for your weekly spa with the affirmation slideshow as the bonus.

I look forward to seeing your new products.
written by Belleruth, February 23, 2012
You all are amazing. I'm so grateful for this wealth of commentary and suggestion. Hot damn. You've given us a ton of wisdom and experience to ponder here. Thank you for taking the time.
written by Emily, February 23, 2012
I think a free smaller version is the best way to go, that way people will known what they will be paying for. Making it the same content as a download isn't good without stating that as I would be looking for something different. Good luck!
written by Martha, February 23, 2012
I agree with those who say price an intro version lower. Anyone who experiences your downloads will pay full price. I would also like to second the person who asked for imagery.
written by Julie, February 23, 2012
I'm in my late 50's and love apps. Personally I am more likely to use an app than a download. A free short version would be helpful as I have way too many products that weren't what I thought they would be when I got them. I have a rule that I don't pay more than $4 for an app. I also counsel children and teenagers. The teenagers all have tablets and smart phones. I've been trying to work out for some time how I could help them access some of your brilliant material. Apps are the way to go for them as long as they are cheap enough for them to consider buying them. I'm excited that I might be able to help them access your material easily and cheaply.
written by Sandy, February 23, 2012
Hi Belleruth,

I have an iPad 2, and have acquired around 460 apps. In my circle, I'm the "App Lady". I also have 2 grandchildren who play with my iPad whenever they come over. I have a huge number of apps for kids, too, so I know apps and what I'll pay for and what I won't.

Well, let's just say that without a job, free and $.99 are good, first of all. The only other sleep app I have (and use) is from Andrew Johnson, and that only cost $.99 and it has more features than yours does, such as a "Prepare" button where you can "Play Instructions", "No Instructions", "Short Induction", "Long Induction". I can repeat it over and over again as many times as I want. I can us it to wake myself up, to go to sleep, or to delay waking up. That app was $.99. It repeats what he says after awhile, but that's o.k. It would be nice if your app did the same.

I know it seems that because you get paid a lot of money to do what you do for a living that it would (should) translate the same in the app market, but it really doesn't. Most people don't have the money to buy these apps at the prices developers want to sell them for sometimes. That's just the way it is. There is an app out there called "GarageBand", and it only cost $4.99 but WOW does it do a lot of things!! So that set the bar pretty high, in my opinion. You wouldn't believe some of what these apps can do! So for your developer to charge $3.99 for your app was a bit on the high side. Not because you aren't worth the money, but because your app isn't rich with features like most apps are. So the more features you offer, the more money it's worth...sort of. You have some loyal fans, like me and some others. But if you want more people to buy your app at the price you're charging, you'll have to put a lot more features into it. I'm sorry. That's just the way it works.

Anyway, thank you for asking us about this.
written by Suzanne, LCSW in Mid MO, February 24, 2012
This thread has been a very interesting explanation of app development. I can say I haven't seen that many apps but will be looking more closely for the features that you're all describing. We have two fairly new Droids and an iPad, 3 Ipods and a PC full of guided imagery titles from downloads and CDs. Your cassette tapes sit in a sad little pile, overlooked, while we've moved onto new first tape was a copy of healthy pregnancy and labor you cut for me as it was first produced which my husb describes "got into head."

Apps could be a great way to reach a younger audience. I'm betting my 12yo, Emma Belleruth, would listen to Peak Performance and Increasing Confidence more often if they were a bit shorter and located conveniently on her phone.

Your clinicians might appreciate the more interactive app features for personal or office use. I recently purchased the new DBT app.which allows you to track goals, use of skills, keep a journal. I was perfectly happy to pay 4.99 for something to use in my practice. App versions of many (all) of your CDs could be enhanced with features for journaling or tracking progress, shorter segments, 10 min, 20 min allowing the clinician the ability to select total length of time and end a segment early or more naturally, simply gentler than trying to play sound master and adjust the volume manually. There could be so many options, what fun to brainstorm. And the more affordable price (lower than CD) might put the same app in more peoples lives who need your work the most.

I look forward to meeting you one day at a conference. I appreciate all you do.

written by Belleruth, February 24, 2012
Well said, Sandy. No need to apologize. We're all learning here, and, thanks to you and everyone else on this page, we're getting the best kind of education - from the end-user. Thanks for taking the time to help us figure this out.
written by april, February 24, 2012
Apps and downloads shouldn't cost the same as a hardcopy because they are cheaper to make. But, the download should be more expensive than the app because you can make copies of a download, I think. You should price the app a few dollars cheaper than the download for that reason. You def want to offer an amended version first at a cheaper price. I think Nike's run tracker app was the most expensive little app I've seen at $24.00. Big language learning program apps are REALLY expensive. The biggest point i can make is that an entire cd music download usually runs under $10. So, your app or download shouldn't be costing more than that.
written by James Boardman, February 24, 2012
IMHO, a phone app, whether be it for the IPhone or Android device, should not be priced equivalently with a CD. BUT, an interactive app, which would allow access to more than one of your CDs on a single IPhone or Android would be worth even more than a CD. For instance, I paid $24.00 for access to many of Bishop Fulton Sheen's TV and radio broadcasts, which I can only access with my Android phone. I listen to these in my car driving back and forth to work, and my wife and I enjoy them when we travel. The "app world" is new, and not quite a "portable" as is a CD or even an MP3. Many things to consider. And, BTW, my wife and I own MANY Belleruth CDs and would consider an "app" probably at whatever price you would ask!

Thanks for all your good works,
Jim and Elly Boardman
written by Belleruth, February 25, 2012
OK, Suzanne,
Have I got this right?
Did you just tell me that your 12-year-old daughter Emma, born to the dulcet strains of Steve Kohn's music scoring my guided imagery for pregnancy & childbirth, has the middle name of 'Belleruth'??!!
written by Amy Tiller, MSW/HSW, March 29, 2012
Been using your products for years in my own life and in the lives of my dialysis patients. Excellent, excellent, and they work great! In answer to your inquiry, your prices are right in line for products but having an iPad and an Adroid based tablet, I can tell you that apps (regardless of the genre) are usually $10 at the very highest end. Not certain why but many are free or a couple of bucks. It is a different catagory of users than downloaders - because I am both! Take care and nice to reconnect with you.


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